Maintenance Working Group Meeting (2024-02-22 08:53 GMT-5) - Transcript

Attendees

Chintan Joshi, Fateme Khodayari, Feanil Patel, Feanil Patel's Presentation, Felipe Montoya, Jeremy Ristau, Kyle McCormick, Maksim Sokolskiy, Maria Grimaldi, Michelle Philbrick, Navin Karkera, Piotr Surowiec, Robert Raposa, Tim Krones, Xavier Antoviaque

Transcript

This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.

Feanil Patel: Just catching up.

Maksim Sokolskiy: and We have to account this concern. for sure and probably the most likely case for us is to report all critical bugs in the first two weeks and not Beyond.

Jeremy Ristau: that makes sense and…

Maksim Sokolskiy: At let's think about this. Yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah, and does that look in practice Only executing the prioritize the highest priority test case is first and then reporting those bugs you move to the next set of Prior.

Maksim Sokolskiy: Yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah. Okay great.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Maksim Sokolskiy: Or yeah, I'm critical possible Stone and everything else. And by the way, we have an interesting suggestion in BTR. It will be great for all maintenance and developers to actually test as a work in a tutor plugins in a tutor in general, so probably it will decrease the total number of critical issues who variable level

Feanil Patel: Right. One of the I think historic issues has been that things were not tested in tutor which is the community standard release and then we found very late in the process that they were broken in tutor even if they were working for . So I think aligning on testing in tor. Earlier will help find these issues and prevent them in the first case.

Maksim Sokolskiy: Okay.

Xavier Antoviaque: So that is definitely the better scenarios. That's Interruption. That's one of the things reality is going to bite back because of course we discover some issues toward the end and often after we release right then the more people get exposed with the more we are lucky to find books. So even if generally the time frame is the one that we just talked about. What do we do when an actual release critical book arrived the last day or a couple of days before even after? How do we Define that? What are the slis do we keep the one week SL in that case or not?

Xavier Antoviaque: And to not just ask a question might take on. This would be that One Believes a critical bugs are found over the end or the beginning the SLA should diminish. Obviously we can't expect issues to be solved immediately. But I don't think it would be really serious for the product if we had a really critical bug and something that has just been released and then we wait the SLA of one week to do that in matter of fact because people care about the project that's not what good happened. It might be what could Define that so that people know what to expect and just straight to keep that. Yeah.

Feanil Patel: but

Feanil Patel: and Jeremy, I think we do have that information. I don't have it on hand, but Max, I know you like Maria you spent a lot of time in the testing process. So I don't know if those stats are easily available to you guys.

Feanil Patel: But I think there were a handful of things.

Maria Grimaldi: Yeah, we don't really have stats. I don't think we have stats but those are the release bloggers we have found in the latest releases.

Feanil Patel: All right.

Feanil Patel: So in Quincy looks like there was one and in. Palm there was one.

Feanil Patel: Then a bunch of them are older. So it's not a lot, but I think to Xavier's point. being prepared to spend extra time supporting and fixing issues around the release seems like a useful thing for us to Quantum to

Feanil Patel: sort of codify for maintenance and the like does that same reasonable to everyone?

Kyle McCormick: Yes. Hey.

Feanil Patel: Okay.

00:05:00

Kyle McCormick: I mean maybe stating the obvious but they're definitely going to be bugs that come out. Outside of the release cycle those folks have mentioned but I do think most will be coming out around the release times. That's a good time to say that maintenance need to be

Maksim Sokolskiy: Also, I can say that we actually rely on this nightly tutorial plugins buried before the starting date of the testing so we can actually test some critical paths even one to week weeks before the distance start. So probably will help.

Feanil Patel: Right helps spread out the amount of time where we need responses. It's not as critical.

Maksim Sokolskiy: Yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: Is there a escalation path for these blockers that already exists?

Feanil Patel: I think we've had some trouble with that historically because the maintenance haven't existed across all repositories for the most part. they get escalated within BTR and bit essentially the last two releases. My understanding is that a couple of people have heroically dug into things across the whole system and made sure that they got fixed.

Feanil Patel: Moving forward I think if the maintenance need help or if BTR is not getting response from the maintenance. This would be the group that they would escalate to is my expectation. But it could be that BTR internally handles it similar to what they have done historically.

Jeremy Ristau: Okay, and so that's if you're trying to escalate to a maintainer and they're responding. What if there is a maintainer that does not have capacity to resolve a blocking bug in time.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I mean, I think we've been missing that piece of communication historically. So I think that would get escalated back to BTR and we can figure out sort of next steps.

Jeremy Ristau: So in essence BTR is the escalation path for pretty much everything.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, because they're the ones actually trying to get the release out. So I think that escalating to them makes the most sense in terms of communicating with the people…

Jeremy Ristau: me

Feanil Patel: who are trying to take action.

Xavier Antoviaque: Maybe something to keep in mind. Also in that case is that's a similar program to the one that we have with Upstream reviews of SPS. Sometimes the maintenance might not be available. So that could also be something but core contributors can add it there's a backup…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Xavier Antoviaque: if there is some final 10 do that.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Maria Grimaldi: Although the expectation is for maintenance to have you…

Robert Raposa: All right.

Maria Grimaldi: this issues critical or not as a priority. I still have a Jeremy's question, what if they can't actually solve the issue? I think that's something we still need to discuss in the VTR. But my expectation will be that book Treasures or just all of people in the BTR just steps and tries and helps the maintenance to spell issues. Because he can't happen. And I think you…

Feanil Patel: Absolutely. Yeah,…

Maria Grimaldi: But yeah.

Feanil Patel: I think especially as people are taking over maintenance of parts of the code base that they're not necessarily super familiar with or super versed in we're gonna see a lot of issues where people need help and we'll do the best we can. but I think over time we're in a weird situation right now where we having historically the process we're talking about hasn't happened before so we don't have a lot of data points to sort of work from I think the one critical bit that I will say we really need is more communication about people who can't do things because historically I think what's happened is There hasn't been an obvious person responsible. And if there wasn't obvious person responsible, they haven't been communicating that they're unable to do things. And I think as long as people can communicate that they're not able to do things. We'll be able to find help in other ways. Michelle

Michelle Philbrick: Sorry. I just wanted to give a thumbs up, but I raised my hand and said that.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I mean, I think that the critical bit is we got to make sure that if you are supposed to be responsible, but you can't help that you at least say so and if that happens over and over again, then we should talk about whether maintaining that repository makes sense for you, but If it's much more useful than radio silence when you can't commit in other ways the communication that you can't do something is really helpful to be able to move things forward.

00:10:00

Xavier Antoviaque: And…

Feanil Patel: All right.

Xavier Antoviaque: on just for that because in the past that has been a bit blocker, so I'm expecting that might still be the case in some cases we can again use the rule that…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Xavier Antoviaque: if someone is not being responsive, even if it's a maintenance, then we can escalate to contributors or we're working.

Feanil Patel: notes that go for it.

Maria Grimaldi: Regarding Yeah, I was gonna answer Jeremy's question. I don't know if you

Feanil Patel: say

Maria Grimaldi: release bloggers are categorized on the BTR.

Maria Grimaldi: people who manage the board usually try to escalate the issues that they can solve themselves to the maintenance, but it's not a process in place and maybe once a week when we are close the release we tried to list the release bloggers that are still open, but that's within BTR. We don't have a process of communicating those issues to the maintenance.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Maria Grimaldi: which we should So if the proposal gets approved by,…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Maria Grimaldi: the BTR we need to have process in place of communicating those reports those book issues. This books to the repository because as it is currently a tester just it's definitely listened in the sandbox finds a bug or a test something that's not behaving correctly and they open an issue in the VTR board and book Treasures or whoever CC issue. Tries to solve it and if it's within their domain if it's not then it opens. an issue in the report that Happens but it's not something that it's in place.

Feanil Patel: So I think that's probably good feedback to BTR that Maria and Max can probably take back which is that I think we should codify and make sure the process is that if an issue is found that those tickets get created in those specific repos. So that maintainers can easily see them and if that's happening that will allow maintenance to respond faster to issues because have to keep track of All the VTR processes they can just look at new bugs reported in their Repository.

Maria Grimaldi: Yeah, usually testers don't really know where is the issue so they are the ones that open the report so I don't think they will know…

Feanil Patel: right

Maria Grimaldi: where to open the report and Report the book…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Maria Grimaldi: what we should do it. At least we should research and see I think this is related to there's a pository so I'll open it. This is just an idea having I haven't talked or…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Maria Grimaldi: mentioned this to the VTR, but maybe that's why we should do.

Feanil Patel: That feels like the right idea to me. So I think that's worth taking back to BTR and establishing as a standard process. So whoever's in charge of the testing should be able to either do that routing to the repos or we need a role on the BTR that can help you that

Feanil Patel: cool awesome.

Feanil Patel: And as notes Here.

Feanil Patel: Okay, any other notes anybody has on that front? We got about 20 minutes and there's two more things. I think these will go a little faster one is forums testing help and this maybe Max and Maria might be the right people asked but if others know feel free to chime in which is we've talked about the forums needing the Cs comment service needs a ruby upgrade. That upgrade was actually pretty straightforward. I kind of did it while I was watching TV last night and the tests are all passing, but I want to test it more thoroughly. Using ideally maybe the BTR release process and any tests we have there around forums is there.

00:15:00

Feanil Patel: Is there somebody who can help me do that? And somebody take on testing a branch of Cs comment service with the new version of Ruby?

Maksim Sokolskiy: I can do this.

Feanil Patel: All right.

Maksim Sokolskiy: Maybe yeah.

Feanil Patel: There it is.

Feanil Patel: I'll send you the branch Max.

Feanil Patel: A separate Branch with the Forum with the mango update as well because I suspect it'll be similarly not too complex. But at least Let's test the Ruby upgrade which is the critical thing and if we can land that would be great. A cool and…

Maksim Sokolskiy: Okay.

Feanil Patel: then the Python 3 status as I mentioned above.

Feanil Patel: I don't know what the current state is of the tickets that were meant to be created. So I will follow up with a waste about that.

Robert Raposa: I added a link to a draft that was approved it. It's

Feanil Patel: Okay, yeah.

Robert Raposa: the

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I He made a couple of test ones that I helped review.

Feanil Patel: Just to make sure that we're on the same page about what changes need to happen. but I haven't seen more pull requests. just

Robert Raposa: Yep. a great

Robert Raposa: and I haven't seen these merged so

Feanil Patel: yeah, yeah, so let's get to point…

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: where we have that

Robert Raposa: awesome, maybe if you do the

Robert Raposa: If you do the merch your magic touch with Ruby evil hit all the python. great.

Feanil Patel: Maybe It'll all just be fine.

Robert Raposa: I'll just be fine.

Feanil Patel: It might be I've been looking at the change logs for Python, and it'll be some weird Corner case that we'll run into but so far. It's been okay. all…

Robert Raposa: 

Feanil Patel: So I'm just gonna remove this item because we covered it earlier.

Feanil Patel: I'll convert some of these conversational things into todos after the meeting. Is there anything else anybody wants to cover in the last 20 minutes or so?

Felipe Montoya: Just a quick question. So we Showed interest for some of reports for maintenance and I was pushing my team to actually create nominations of Xavier. You understand jumping in the water for some of the reposites, okay.

Feanil Patel: Right, so it's like what's the state?

Feanil Patel: So great question. Yeah, In the spreadsheet, I started noting where there's multiple people interested in the same repo. I think if you only see your name next to an interested. Go make the catalog PR and in sort of tag me on it and then we can merge it.

Felipe Montoya: I was thinking more like a nomination in the discussed forums. For our days and…

Feanil Patel: Okay, yeah.

Felipe Montoya: that person to imitate their base or I don't know this pretty is history.

Feanil Patel: Got it. Yeah, that's a great idea.

Felipe Montoya: And so

Feanil Patel: So let's start. with nominations

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I think please go forth and do this you guys have access to the spreadsheet so that I updated that yesterday with things that have actual owners for anything. That doesn't. Honestly, first serve at this point, there is some notes about people who are interested, but I don't want to sort of wait for people to whoever can fulfill the promise fastest at this point, honestly. so

Felipe Montoya: we're starting with the results that we were the only ones interested, but Just testing out the waters and…

Feanil Patel: Yet. Yeah, I think start with those nomination threads and…

Felipe Montoya: see how that work.

Feanil Patel: we'll do I'd say one week for people to respond. And then we can move forward.

00:20:00

Feanil Patel: Okay, awesome.

Xavier Antoviaque: So you mentioned that in this spreadsheet you have kind of collected the different interests of the different organizations, right?

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I haven't gotten the open craft ones in there yet Xavier. I'm gonna do that today. But you guys have a priority rather than specific ones you're interested in so I wasn't sure…

Xavier Antoviaque: Yeah, okay.

Feanil Patel: what the thing to do was

Xavier Antoviaque: You can start buying we are interested in Priority One for now and if we still have any availability left after that, it's not the commitment to take everything.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, okay.

Xavier Antoviaque: But those are the ones we would be particularly interested. Yeah.

Feanil Patel: I'll do that. I'll pull your priority ones and Mark those as interests and that way you can sort of compare and contrast against the other. Groups and Max I got your message as well. So I'll put those in as well.

Feanil Patel: So yeah, that should be updated today. I'll put a message and maintenance when I've done that if you want to wait for that, but I think Felipe for most of the ones that you guys were interested. I don't think there were major conflicts of feel free to move ahead.

Feanil Patel: And I think that that'll be fine.

Felipe Montoya: Yeah. at least we're studying with a couple ones not necessarily all the list at once but

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: and that a little question about that earlier BTR process, so closely

Robert Raposa: Matches Master right and we get a lot of bugs fixed in that way because things are just tested on that has brought up that the tutor. Plugins have that we want to get things tested has there been any discussion of any sort of? immunity deployment that would use tutor and would not go against the name releases, but would actually maybe not. Yeah, I priority, like a critical problem if there were issues with it, but gets some usage throughout the year and get testing and uses tutor. Anyway, it's just

Kyle McCormick: so we have a accent we have these sandboxes now that we're starting to deploy on several of rprs. So it's like an ephemeral. Open edx site running using tutor nightly. So running off of that's the whatever branch. Is made which is generally right off of Master. So we're beginning to use those and as Over time I'm hoping we can keep using them more. So that will provide some testing. I don't know of any. plans to make a persisted instance running off of Master

Robert Raposa: But even the sandboxes that are all new and we don't know that might be enough. did yeah.

Kyle McCormick: It's better than nothing. That's for sure because if they sandbox fails to deploy. then that is already happened.

Robert Raposa: exactly

Kyle McCormick: We had a Sandbox feeling to deploy and we looked into it and it was because path writing was broken and microphone and spy some change on master. So I think we'll catch some issues from that.

Robert Raposa: That's good.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, and I think we've had some conversations about having a potential like Master sandbox that we run sort of more continuously, but it's not a thing that we followed up on at the moment. Yeah, it's definitely an area of improvement.

Feanil Patel: That we can invest in the future.

Feanil Patel: All right.

Kyle McCormick: I definitely recognize the value in what year proposing Robert? I just don't know that any plans to or

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: right

Feanil Patel: All right other thoughts.

Kyle McCormick: That is not a master sandbox. That is a Sandbox targeted at people who heard about open at X as a course author or as a learner and want to see what it's about but it's running off of named releases. So that's meant to be stable for an outside audience less so for Developers

00:25:00

Feanil Patel: right right, and so Sandbox for customers rather than a Sandbox for Developers.

Feanil Patel: cool

Feanil Patel: gently. I just see your question if you're interested, I think contact me for now. Rather than edit that sheet. And we can sort of work from there.

Chintan Joshi: Okay.

Feanil Patel: All right.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, you can just hit me up via Slack.

Feanil Patel: cool anything else

Feanil Patel: No, I think we're done. Stick around if you want to talk at X platform.

Feanil Patel: But otherwise, thank you all and I'll see you next week looking forward to those nomination threads reminder. There are a couple of Specific repos mfes that I'm looking for maintainers on and I haven't heard anything. So if you have any interested front-end developers, that have capacity please chime in on the thread in discourse.

Feanil Patel: those are I think going to be critical because those are part of the release today and don't have maintenance so

Feanil Patel: if you have capacity priorities those

Feanil Patel: Thanks. Everybody. Let's switch over to Okay.

Felipe Montoya: to your

Feanil Patel: All right.

Feanil Patel: edx platform so

Feanil Patel: Kyle you were saying the live There's a question. for us to think about

Feanil Patel: you're muted also.

Kyle McCormick: There is but I don't have it ready.

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Feanil Patel: other than that Jeremy there's the Mongo upgrade which requires I think new. test infrastructure to be spun up. Because of the test Runners being run at to you.

Jeremy Ristau: yeah, I got some feedback about that that the images are built in public but the community can't create a separate self-hosted Runner so somehow installing both versions on the same Runner and picking one.

Jeremy Ristau: is the RB bomb recommended path forward?

Feanil Patel: I said

Feanil Patel: is this an upgrade that you guys are going to sort of prioritize or is this a thing where others need to take the lead? You're trying to understand what capacity and where it's focused.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah, I mean, obviously we have to do the Mongo 5 upgrade. And we were hoping to skip five…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: but we have to do five before going to six.

Feanil Patel: really? Okay.

Jeremy Ristau: 

Jeremy Ristau: yeah, I R bombs definitely going to be working on it. I think the hope is that we don't have to do the entire upgrade though.

Feanil Patel: Okay, what do you mean by not have to do the entire upgrade just get to five or? Have help in doing the debugging or what does that mean to you?

00:30:00

Jeremy Ristau: I don't think I know enough of all the steps in order to know how to break them down. But I hope is that it isn't an atomic one group has to do the entire thing kind of activity.

Feanil Patel: Got it.

Feanil Patel: Chintan. What did you want to chime in?

Chintan Joshi: Yeah, so I just wanted to say for the more operate for one of our clients. They wanted to upgrade from kuwa to the latest version and within that latest version. They also wanted to go to Mongo sevens. So we did that process for the open edx database and the Cs command service data is and it worked fine without any issues.

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, Jeremy. Do you know why you guys have to go to Five first?

Jeremy Ristau: I believe that is a mongo limitation. I read the doc…

Chintan Joshi: yeah,

Jeremy Ristau: but I don't remember their specific words.

Chintan Joshi: Same when I read and went through the docs. They mentioned that you have to specifically do the upgrade step by step.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: I think so chintan when you guys did the upgrade. Did you go through five six and went all the way to seven? a

Chintan Joshi: Yes, yes.

Feanil Patel: that complicates that's because with the named release of being so far apart. we

Feanil Patel: we might need to just run the community to five for now and then run six in sumac

Kyle McCormick: Yeah, unless we do six in Redwood and then have some stuff in the tutor upgrade scripts that. does 56

Feanil Patel: Do both Okay, so that's maybe an open question is.

Feanil Patel: Can we have tutor run through honestly, five six and seven.

Chintan Joshi: I can also answer on that. We were doing the upgrades with tutor and I was like because I was upgrading step by step. I didn't download all the Mongo versions what I did was create Docker images. Out of all those versions and pointed them in the docs compose file of tutor. So

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, and I think those are the only two places where we're running Mongo CS Comet service and index platform. So if you did those two, that should be everything. But okay, I think the question is more. Can we do that in an automated fashion? right Kyle because I'm imagining part of the upgrade tooling would bring down the docker 5 image started up have it process all the documents and then do that with six and then with seven.

Kyle McCormick: Yep.

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Kyle McCormick: It would probably have a couple Docker composed Services one for the intermediate Mongo version and one for the one we actually want to get to and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Kyle McCormick: then have a pulling that way notation point in different versions of manga.

Feanil Patel: Right, okay.

Kyle McCormick: And you have to titter the upgrade script is just python, So anything we can script the path on we can do.

Feanil Patel: Got Great, so it's totally possible. It's just a matter of capacity to do that work versus just going to five for now. And having a mango update having a known Mongo update for each of the next three releases.

Kyle McCormick: right

Kyle McCormick: The writing of the Python. I would worry more about just failure cases and is that something we want people to do all at once?

Feanil Patel: Right, right. And is that feasible for Jeremy?

00:35:00

Kyle McCormick: around

Feanil Patel: I'm thinking for you guys. That would mean that we need to do all of those upgrades before Redwood. get to five get to six and get to Seven would have to land by Redwood if we wanted to squeeze that for Redwood, and those are

Feanil Patel: That might put an extra burden on your team to sort of get that. all chain together

Jeremy Ristau: yeah, I mean I suspect that. Mongo six could be done before Redwood if we did also talk about Django and react and node and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah. There yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: I like independently sure it could get done but can like picking it all into consideration.

Feanil Patel: in reality

Jeremy Ristau: I don't know that I would put mango six above some of the other things that we want to land in Redwood.

Feanil Patel: absolutely totally agree.

Feanil Patel: yeah, I think that makes sense. So maybe we're just aiming for five. in Redwood

Feanil Patel: I just take a look to make sure five is going to be okay.

Feanil Patel: So yeah, five we lose support in eight months. That gives us enough time to go to Six for sumac right? Because that releases it's gonna be tight, but that release is not getting cut till. That really gets cut in September.

Feanil Patel: Kyle

Jeremy Ristau: That's first week of October.

Kyle McCormick: October or November 1st,…

Feanil Patel: Yeah. for this reason?

Kyle McCormick: if we do the condensed using period

Feanil Patel: Okay, so then we do want to get to six before. It's Redwood. If that's the case.

Kyle McCormick: I mean to do five in Redwood and six and Redwood dot two, but that's like

Feanil Patel: It's not. Yeah.

Kyle McCormick: Kind of unprecedented to use public places like that.

Feanil Patel: We may need to just in terms of capacity. I'll make a note of that.

Robert Raposa: I don't know what the release process is like, but is there any chance that? or I get the six and seven will block other upgrade work that are rebounded the worst doing this will need to do but is it possible that five six and seven doing them? All together will be a lot less work. than

Robert Raposa: starting them out. It's just a question like whether or not that should be a question that's raised to the people that are going to be working on. the magnify upgrade same is it simpler to get it all out of the way, especially if there's the possibility of not running into any issues,

Jeremy Ristau: I mean, I certainly think that The testing could be run for six and you could compare it against the testing results for five and if the results align with each other then you can push all the way to six after fixing issues But if the testing results differ from each other then I would be hesitant to push five and six through.

Robert Raposa: better this is

Feanil Patel: yeah, so I think it's one of those things where we can't know until we figure out how easy five is and how easy six is so we need those test Runners up. As soon as possible Jeremy is that a thing that everyone can prioritize is getting those test Runners figured out because anybody else trying to take that on it'll take longer than them because they know the infrastructure so well.

Feanil Patel: But I know you guys are still working on the Django upgrade for a couple of services still so.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah, I mean right now I know we've got Django node the babble plug-in react 17 just enzyme to react testing library and replacing headaches with open edx references. and…

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Robert Raposa: and present

Jeremy Ristau: maybe this group could help me. prioritize that

00:40:00

Feanil Patel: Yeah prioritize that I can help you with that.

Jeremy Ristau: because They're all right.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, yeah, that's too many things. Yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah urgency and importance are gonna be really a key factors to identify here.

Feanil Patel: and timing for when things are going out of support. Yeah, I can help prioritize that you just send me your big lists. I just like in a slack chat message and I'll try to take a look through it.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah, and I dumped into the maintenance working group channel the thread that I had with Saban about all the runner knowledge.

Feanil Patel: Thank you for doing that. I'll take a look through that as well. Yeah. Yeah, I think there is a sequencing question, which is probably the most critical question for us right now given sort of reduce capacity.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah, because even each of these, node is busting out into webpack and selenium Webdriver upgrade like you all have dependent pain.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, they all have dependencies. Yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: Helping understand what the top level items that need to get done. and for what major release will definitely help maybe answer the question of whether or not we could put something before or after.

Feanil Patel: That sounds Okay. Yeah, I can help do that. I'm just gonna make a note from this.

Feanil Patel: Okay, So that's the Mongo python upgrade. We could talked about a little bit node upgrade. We also talked about a little bit because it sounds like the team needs help to unblock the node 16 upgrade and that's gonna block the 18 to 20 upgrade as well. So it seems like we have a good Focus point and I'll bring that up with a dolphin Brian and see if we can get somebody to help unblock the

Feanil Patel: the npm dependency issue and platform around webpack and selenium

Feanil Patel: Is there other stuff we want to talk about today?

Kyle McCormick: I can give a quick update on the libsad stuff.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, go for it.

Kyle McCormick: So let's ask we use to. file themes for legacy front-end internet And this Library will use an outdated version of a deprecated Library. and that library has only stated. So this is the python bindings for a SAS compilation Library built and this Library States compatibility with Python 3.4, but it's just kept working with up until python 3.8.

Kyle McCormick: And in 310 it breaks in a very trivial way. It's just like you need to change One Import and it starts working again.

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Kyle McCormick: So Our options are upgrade to a newer version of this deprecated Library, which will take a good amount of work and cleaning up our Legacy SAS. I like several people have tried this and it's like no one has been able to do it so far. or we Fork the limb SAS python At version 0.10…

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Kyle McCormick: which is what we install now just make that one change so that it's compatible with three twelve and then have this be a long looped Fork until we finished deprecating Legacy front ends.

Kyle McCormick: or until we Fix our sass if we think the Legacy front ends are gonna be around for longer. So as much as I get the idea forking and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Kyle McCormick: making a new repo for this, it's also a matter of do we want to spend our time cleaning up Legacy front end code?

Feanil Patel: that seems

Feanil Patel: yeah, it feels like probably the cheaper of the two options given our capacity and our priorities.

Feanil Patel: Okay. That sounds good.

Feanil Patel: I think that the move is to do that fork and Can you write up an edx platform issue to that effect?

Kyle McCormick: yeah, in fact I will just do it because that's easier than writing the issue.

Feanil Patel: Okay. Thank you.

Robert Raposa: to Do we need any sort…

00:45:00

Kyle McCormick: 

Robert Raposa: follow-up, or will it just

Robert Raposa: dial out with the Legacy code that we are hoping will die out.

Kyle McCormick: Yeah, the question I think so in the readme of this Fork. I want to include here's why we have this. and then a decision tree of once the MFE reflatforming is done …

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Kyle McCormick: what is this still needed? I don't think it will be but if it is like,…

Feanil Patel: Yeah. but

Kyle McCormick: okay, then we need to do something better. we need to then. Picks up whatever SAS is left to the new version…

Feanil Patel: we need right

Kyle McCormick: which should be easier because a bunch of it will be removed.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, that sounds good. And then Kyle as a part of that fork, please add a catalog info and make action engineering the owner. Awesome. Thank you.

Kyle McCormick: Yeah, totally.

Feanil Patel: All right, so that will hopefully unblock the python upgrade. It sounds like We need to identify the rest of the blockers for the python upgrade.

Kyle McCormick: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: Which a wasted start but I don't know what the state of is reach out to

Robert Raposa: And related to that one. Jeremy when is oasis less than

Robert Raposa: first always planning on everyone's Frozen on my screen. Does that mean you can't hear me? Okay.

Jeremy Ristau: I can hear you.

Feanil Patel: I can hear you.

Jeremy Ristau: I honestly don't know. that is a conversation and managed with someone on our side and the head of arbisoft by honestly have no clue.

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Robert Raposa: you get I think it was two weeks ago. So I just want you to let you know,…

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: …

Jeremy Ristau: right

Robert Raposa: no I didn't but his intention is on the open edx side afterwards,…

Feanil Patel: Okay. disappear

Robert Raposa: but I don't know when he's just gonna not be real and when you need different content.

Feanil Patel: And it might be today He wasn't in this meeting and perhaps that.

Robert Raposa: It exactly.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: I'm thinking if I actually have that last day will be. no it was. so

Robert Raposa: she I think he was already. not

Feanil Patel: I thought it was part of the original off-boarding before.

Robert Raposa: I mean sort of so this already happened in the past which I

Robert Raposa: which I remember being surprised but about seeing him in the meeting so I don't know how You'd have to just get an update from him directly of…

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Feanil Patel: Yeah. Yeah,…

Robert Raposa: what group attention is.

Feanil Patel: I think arbisoft is putting a couple of Engineers on general maintenance stuff as well. So it might be just a part of that but I think anything to talk to him and…

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: figure out sort of like what his level of involvement is going to be moving forward.

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: position Okay.

Feanil Patel: cool that was my understanding as well. So I'll just continue with that and I think it was just working as a part of arbisoft to help support those so we can keep that.

Robert Raposa: Okay.

Feanil Patel: If it works.

Kyle McCormick: I did make an issue for Luke's espanol do you want? Me to stick that on a board or label on it or anything.

Feanil Patel: Put it on the maintenance board for now and I'll organize it further later.

Kyle McCormick: That's good.

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Feanil Patel: All right. There's anything else anybody wants to cover?

Robert Raposa: 

Kyle McCormick: Great.

Feanil Patel: All right.

Kyle McCormick: I meant to ask about tubular. I know.

Feanil Patel: Yes.

Kyle McCormick: We are making that to you repo and bowling the user retirement stuff at X platform.

Kyle McCormick: Someone asked whether the tubular stuff that tutor uses is going to be upgraded to python 312 and I didn't realize and I'm not even sure tutor uses tubular at all. So maybe that's just an understanding.

Feanil Patel: yeah, that's news to me unless it's the retirement related tooling which has moved who is this mentioned there is retirement. I think it is via tutor retirement plugins and up those are third-party plugins, but I created an issue for at least one of them to let them know that this was happening.

00:50:00

Feanil Patel: Just so that those teams are aware. But yeah, I think there's a retirement plug-in that has texo maintains for tutor

Kyle McCormick: cool

Feanil Patel: and so I did make an issue over there and I got a response with what's his name of the person Adolfo was working with whose name is falling out of my head.

Kyle McCormick: Christian

Feanil Patel: No for her, s*. A Florian.

Kyle McCormick: Florian

Feanil Patel: Thank so foreign responded so I know they saw it the pr for edx platform is ready to merge.

Kyle McCormick: cool

Feanil Patel: So we're gonna merge it and then land deprecation warnings on the tubular side. instead of deletions just and this is actually a good note for Robert and Jeremy. I'm also going to try to RE to you, but I'm realizing that that's nobody that I know anymore except for maybe Kate who I sort of know. but

Feanil Patel: the retirement related scripts which is the things that are the gdpr compliance retirement stuff those scripts are moving to edits platform. So the related Jenkins jobs on the two use side will need to be updated because the old repo is going to get Either that or that repo needs to be forked over but I recommend moving the retirement code to use the X platform code because the old code will not get updated and if there are changes to the retirement tooling this should all happen in that ex platform moving forward.

Feanil Patel: I can. I'll draw I was planning on dropping the issues in slack with a link to the PRS and stuff in the ask to you channel. So look out for that, but this is just a pre-warning to that note. Yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: thank

Robert Raposa: Do we have am?

Robert Raposa: What kind of? Time frame do we plan? for things like this …

Feanil Patel: We don't really have good precedence for it in all honesty.

Robert Raposa: I would

Feanil Patel: So I'm happy.

Robert Raposa: yeah.

Feanil Patel: I'm open to anything that sounds reasonable. The nice thing is that code a has not seen any changes in many years. So it's unlikely to change significantly. So even if we archive that repository, it shouldn't break anything.

Feanil Patel: So that was kind of my proposals we can wait, maybe two weeks and Men archive that repository will make wait a month in the archive just archive it and you guys will have however much time. if you need to ever write to that reposit, if you need to write to those scripts to make changes, that's when you need to make the change.

Robert Raposa: Yeah, it'll still work off the archives, So it's

Feanil Patel: Yeah, it'll still work the GitHub forwarding should make it all be fine. It just won't be writable. And so if you need to make updates if we find that we need to make python, three 12 related updates. Those will only land and metics platform. Those won't land on the tubular repo.

Robert Raposa: and then We'll have a nice readme message update on the market every Check out the defer to…

Feanil Patel: Yeah. Yeah,…

Robert Raposa: where everything looks or whatever.

Feanil Patel: and in fact for Han from the X improvements team is going we're putting a deprecation warning that has a link to the issue in every script that is being deprecated. So you should even see those in Jenkins logs. not that I know I'm pretty sure nobody reads those logs…

Robert Raposa: And that's nice.

Feanil Patel: but If they were to read the logs,…

Robert Raposa: 

Feanil Patel: they would see that information and it is available there. It will be also in the readme.

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah, it's a good meta note around transparency versus visibility. I certainly don't think anyone is looking at Jenkins logs right now.

Feanil Patel: right

Feanil Patel: right

Jeremy Ristau: Bomb teams got reduced quite a bit, but the SRE team got reduced to near nothing. So there's not a lot of capacity there.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Ristau: So to Robert's any kind of soft or longer Windows of time for a reaction would be obviously really appreciated.

00:55:00

Feanil Patel: Yeah, so I mean seeking feedback, right? what do you guys think Is it reasonable for us to just archive that when we're ready in this particular case, but in other cases where the archival might result in breakage we can sort of talk about how long to do that for. I think I would be looking for response windows in the two weeks to four week range as reasonable but gonna check that with your understanding

Robert Raposa: yeah, I mean, I think it's gonna be Somewhat Case by case understanding…

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Robert Raposa: because I mean in general the way. We do stuff for everyone else with names releases you get a whole named release of here's …

Feanil Patel: right

Robert Raposa: here's the new thing and you can still be on the old thing and you have that name release to get on so, lots of cases the whole Community gets six months to do…

Feanil Patel: Right. That's fair.

Robert Raposa: what they need. So it seems a little. unfair for be like, you get two weeks to do this because it's just you while at the same time if it's blocking something that it totally makes sense to get rid of because we're gonna have to do all kinds of upgrades then it's like

Robert Raposa: So proposing six months per se…

Feanil Patel: right

Robert Raposa: but it may be helpful in certain cases…

Feanil Patel: Yeah. right

Robert Raposa: where not a big deal. This one's enough. It's deep the fix is simply Point here instead of here and you won't have to do that when you actually need to edit it, or if you want to get the upgrades.

Feanil Patel: right

Robert Raposa: Then that sounds quite recent.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I'm totally okay with it being Case by case. And once maybe we have a couple more of these under our belt we can have some heuristics that we can clarify but for now having a big case by cases fine. your argument is very reasonable and as convinced me that there are probably cases where it does need to be six months, and I'm okay with that. I think they're certain upgrades where I think I could totally imagine. Needing that time.

Feanil Patel: I think it's definitely more complicated because it's not on a clear Cadence and it's like, this particular change you have six months for and this particular one six months starting in January and six months starting in February and six months starting in March. And so that's gonna be a lot to keep track of if we end up having a lot of these changes so We'll want to figure out faster Loops…

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: where we were possible. But yeah, we can just talk through it for now.

Robert Raposa: yeah, and maybe we try to put them align them with the name releases, even if they're not with the name releases as …

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: here's At least by this time, and so that it's a single schedule for all these types of things.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: like that

Robert Raposa: one other Topic thought especially related to tubular so it sounds like Diana already spoke to you about this. so on the dev stack front. I think there's been. interest on some teams within two you to be able to just Take it over. I mean forget so that we could do to you specific stuff. In there, config and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: testing whatever and just not have to worry about the relationship to the rest of the community. the thing I wanted to double check is

Robert Raposa: maybe it's just fine as is maybe everything. We'll just continue working. I don't know for a little while if it's archived and other people can Fork it, but I know Axum and go on the community is all go to tutor. I also know that there have been people who in the community who mentioned by the way tutors just not ready and we're still using defect so Is it fine for us? we were maintaining it but that would be like saying we're actually not going to maintain it anymore. It's just going to get archived is that And okay thing to say.

Feanil Patel: I mean, all right, The Sassy answer this is a Dipper working group question a useful answer is that we should just go through the process of that if we've done the announcements and nobody else has stepped up to do the maintenance. Then we are fully within our right to Archive it. And I think that's the state we're at.

01:00:00

Kyle McCormick: I think The Deborah was not.

Kyle McCormick: Clear for outside observers. I think what happened is I was like, we should deprecate it in favor of tutor and to you was cool. That sounds great. And then I was like wait wait, we can actually do that. Let's pause on this and now we're coming back to a point where we feel like, okay, it'd be fine to deprecate every Community perspective. and let edx write on a user Enterprise. I think we should clarify that and then kind of Rec communicate it under the context of book to you is going to stop maintaining this. And they're going to use it on a private Fork. And make that give people two weeks to either strongly disagree or volunteer to take over maintenance of it. And at that point I think the green light too. For us to Archive it and for you folks to fork and do whatever you want with it.

Robert Raposa: sounds good. And yes, we can talk about it endeavor. If needed, but thank you.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I'm just gonna put this comment on their Robert, but I think right now it's an accepted and we should probably just move it. Or it's in deprecated and what I think we should just move it's a proposed. Do you see any issues with that?

Robert Raposa: And I can't even remember that come so proposed.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, so basically re communicate before we move it forward

Robert Raposa: so we're

Robert Raposa: yeah, I don't even know what the last Community I mean that sounds good. And I don't know what the original communication was because usually a different version. That's a deprecations.

Feanil Patel: Yeah. Yes,…

Kyle McCormick: I don't know

Feanil Patel: I think.

Kyle McCormick: if it's linked down there. also feel free to edit…

Feanil Patel: I think it might not.

Kyle McCormick: if you have the ability to edit the description, I know I wrote it but feel free to Update it with whatever makes sense.

Kyle McCormick: Or just close this and open a new ticket since the story has changed.

Feanil Patel: Okay, yeah. I've moved this to propose but yet Robert what I would say is if you can leave that deprecation. Now that you have the context here. I'm in full support of just getting it to archived and then you guys can do whatever you want with it. I think from the conversations I've had with various people at accent and other parts of the community. We're at this situation where it's still slightly easier than tutor. But that means that we can't get the fix as we need in tutor because people are sort of in this Bridge situation. So actually getting rid of it will probably help accelerate the changes we need in tutor to make it the right tool for the community.

Feanil Patel: and then you guys can have an edx org stack that hopefully does…

Kyle McCormick: right

Feanil Patel: what you need or I mean in my heart of hearts. What I would really want is for that stack to be a plug-in to tutor that lets you do the edex org specific stuff and everybody's using tutor, but that's a big ask and we really don't have the timer space for it and neither do you guys so We are where we are.

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Kyle McCormick: the only thing that I'm asking for with this last two weeks is just a chance for someone else to raise their hand and say maintain the open attics version of it.

Feanil Patel: right and even that is likely to be temporary, right I think the interests from Adolfo and Ed and others is like we just want to get rid of it and have one thing.

Kyle McCormick: I mean sure but Community project right?

Feanil Patel: Yeah, yeah.

Kyle McCormick: We can't just make idiots like that. So

Feanil Patel: Yeah, absolutely. But yeah.

Robert Raposa: but even if someone signs up to maintain it You can enter or archived it could be unarched and right there's no actual.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I think it's also a project that doesn't get a lot of pull requests. So it's probably pretty safe to Archive and I'm archive.

Kyle McCormick: Yeah. You guys are also good to Fork whenever you want to it. Just please don't stop maintaining it until the diaper is accepted. That's all.

Robert Raposa: which is harder to do three Fork.

Feanil Patel: that yeah.

Kyle McCormick: I mean theoretically this is happening in two weeks. It's accepted. Yeah, and…

Feanil Patel: I think if you announce it today and…

01:05:00

Kyle McCormick: you're good.

Feanil Patel: in a couple weeks, it's accepted. We're in pretty good shape that will archive this you can Fork it everything will be fine

Robert Raposa: yeah, and I think again, this can be a debit meeting discussion, but there's the configuration repo questions and tubular was also because they're all related and I don't know. Dev stuff is using them all. I'm not sure. so

Kyle McCormick: Configuration feels very similar to devsec except that there is more gravity left in configuration than there is in devstack.

Feanil Patel: We'll get there. Let's do this one. My battery's about to die and we only have one minute left in the meeting.

Feanil Patel: So I'm gonna say that's probably enough progress for today and we'll follow up with more. Next week. But yeah Robert, I think the sooner you get that announce reannouncement out the faster we can move on this stuff.

Robert Raposa: nothing

Jeremy Ristau: Thanks everybody.

Feanil Patel: Thanks everybody.

Kyle McCormick: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: that they

Chintan Joshi: Things are too good.

Feanil Patel: but

Meeting ended after 01:06:30 👋