edx-platform Maintenance  Sub-Group (2024-05-09 09:04 GMT-4) - Transcript

Attendees

Adolfo Brandes, Chintan Joshi, Feanil Patel, Feanil Patel's Presentation, Felipe Montoya, Jeremy Ristau, Kyle McCormick, Kyle McCormick's Presentation, Maksim Sokolskiy, Maria Grimaldi, Michelle Philbrick, Mohamed Rafeeh Ibrahim, Nihad Rahim, Piotr Surowiec, Robert Raposa, Sarina Canelake

Transcript

This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.

Feanil Patel: Hi everybody. Welcome. I think we got a couple of things to go through here. Let me share my screen.

Feanil Patel: too many Tab and

Feanil Patel: yes, we can see that.

Kyle McCormick: Yep.

Feanil Patel: size of permanent

Feanil Patel: I yeah.

Feanil Patel: Hopefully that's a little bit better. Can you hear me? Okay.

Feanil Patel: Yes, okay. I can you say something? Okay, cool. It's not going to make you okay. so

Feanil Patel: yeah, not a lot of to talk about for today. I think the biggest One is updating the catalog info noticed platform. I don't think this will come as a surprise, but I wanted to mention it here before it fully changes. I think that our bomb has not had time to sort of do. The maintenance ownership for edx platform and while I think you guys are super committed to helping with it. I don't think you're the current leader of it. So I wanted to just update that. So that's easier to reach out to the right people.

Robert Raposa: so question about that has there been other discussions about this because it is okay,…

Feanil Patel: first person

Robert Raposa: because it is sort of a surprise to me but not a surprise doesn't make sense,…

Feanil Patel: right

Robert Raposa: but guys and I wonder if this PR shouldn't be Accompanied with some ADR of what this means because because It's a unique kind of change right and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: it could mean so many different things and I feel like maybe we should discuss. what it means?

Feanil Patel: Yeah, what are the things that tell me about the things that they could mean to you? We'll start from there.

Robert Raposa: What I guess. we'll start with why did you want to change it you wanted to change it to this because just to literally have a different contact, and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: all that it means to start then okay, that's simple and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: and small obviously, I imagine there's a whole rock on what? The responsibilities of a maintainer are right and…

Feanil Patel: right, that's

Robert Raposa: so that there would be questions about. How did that these work?

Feanil Patel: I mean I yeah.

Robert Raposa: with this team

Feanil Patel: Yeah, that's a great question. I think my perspective is that. This group and this meeting are still. How we figure that out? And I think it's just the contact changes are basically so that we can say if you're stuck on a repo and you need to contact somebody to unblock contact these people and I want that to be true across the board and…

00:05:00

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: I just think that with the data dog work you guys aren't suited to do that at the moment.

Robert Raposa: Yeah, that sounds that sensorism. and yeah, so it sounds reasonable that that's less about …

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: here's where we say who the maintenance is and it means all these other things. It's like here's how to contact the maintainer and wolf. We're going to need to figure out all the other things.

Feanil Patel: All right. right

Feanil Patel: Yeah, edx platform is big enough that I don't expect me and Kyle to individually maintain the entire thing. I think all of the conversations and planning that we've been moving forward. Are going to continue to happen. I think This is more or less to just Update how we can do this routing better the other part of this that I do think that it is worth mentioning, right? Is that I think that

Feanil Patel: I feel like I've been doing a lot of decision making in this space and I'm gonna be continuing to do a lot of decision making in this space and I wanted to sort of back that with the like because I am maintaining this thing I am that is part of why I'm making these decisions and making sure that those two dots connect.

Robert Raposa: Students so that's reasonable and are you imagining that to you are bum is in that the new group? or not

Feanil Patel: That's a good question. I didn't put them in there at the moment. Mostly because I think you guys don't have the capacity to do that. I think that you are ideally you are and this is a thing I will have time for now that we're doing this you will be CC's on edx platform and you'll be part of the discussions in the next platform. But I don't think that You are the maintenance going forward of edx platform. In the way that it is described in the maintenance.

Robert Raposa: so does that mean? Harveybum will not you that you're gonna take over all the upgrade work and everything as well, too.

Feanil Patel: No, I mean this is the same as it was before everybody is still helping build at X platform together. that part is not changing the part that is changing is just the part where it's like the people who can help you with unblocking and decision-making are gonna be over here not over there. Right? And if you guys think that you should be a part of that group of people who can unblock PRS and unblock reviews. I totally on board with that but based on what you guys have told me about your focus at least the next couple months, but I suspect for the foreseeable future that's not a job that you want. I'm happy to be wrong. But I think based on actions.

Robert Raposa: Good.

Feanil Patel: This is what is me reading the room?

Robert Raposa: right, and yeah, I think I was just wondering about because working group maintenance edx platform could have Any number of people in it to rent so it wasn't a question of should you not be making decisions?

Feanil Patel: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Robert Raposa: But could we also still be decisions was part of

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I mean obviously With that next platform even with other repos where there is a maintainer. There is everybody should be like lots of people who are cc's in those repos make decisions all the time. And I expect that to be true even more true that it's platform than other places. Because of how large it is, but this is more sort of like to set up.

Feanil Patel: I am happy to be the person where the buck stops here. I don't think Arc bomb currently is positioned to be where the buck stops.

Robert Raposa: who is in that group?

Feanil Patel: currently myself and Kyle we want to make sure that we don't lose on have a plan for upgrades have a plan for cleanup and deprecations make sure that are the architectural stuff is clear and improve our documentation and we're going to be able to spend time on that more importantly than wanting it. I think a lot of people want it, but I think we'll be able to dedicate time to it. And so I think that's why I put this up.

Kyle McCormick: I think

Kyle McCormick: For one vanilla and I talked about this. We looked at the Redwood upgrades as kind of like Evidence, right like finial led the Redwood upgrades Red X platform. It was the person with a buck stop there on the python 311 upgrade.

00:10:00

Kyle McCormick: Do you guys have a different? sense of how that went

Robert Raposa: Yeah, and that's so. the idea of you both being owners is not unreasonable in any way right and then the idea of us not being honors. Is also potentially not unreasonable and as you said this shouldn't be a surprise to you. I'm just saying it is a surprise only in that now in the moment. I'm just trying to think through the implications of that and whether it actually matters or doesn't matter or if it's just representing reality. And …

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: I'm not responding in a way of this is the wrong thing or we absolutely need to be there. what is that?

Feanil Patel: Yeah, no totally and that's what I put it up as this is not an emergency. I put it up as a PR so that we could have some longer term discussions on it, but that it's clear in public that I think this is a change worth making and we don't have to agree on it today and if you want to sort of hash out with that means Happy to do that let's hash it all out on the pr and then if that leads to an AVR that we put in the pr as a part of it. I'm happy to write that up. But I think it was.

Robert Raposa: And to keep in mind sorry to clarify I had imagined when I first saw this that to you art from was just being moved into that group along with you and Kyle because we had past discussion is about joint ownership. So an idiot are made more sense from the standpoint of…

Feanil Patel: right

Robert Raposa: how does going ownership work. from the standpoint of there is no join ownership the less of a native and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I got it.

Feanil Patel: right

Robert Raposa: ADR and more just a question of is that and okay change and are there any problems that we're going

Feanil Patel: Yeah, right, concerns with this change and the implications that you feel it might have and let's figure those out and I said, I think edx platform. I still need everybody's help. but I'm happy to be the person who figures out who's helped to go get and figures out what we need to do next and help prioritize and help do All of that organizational work that needs to happen for ex platform to sort of keep moving forward and I think that your focus is not that right now and probably won't be for a little bit but that said I'm obviously gonna tap you a thousand times on the shoulder, especially for a bunch of architectural things.

Robert Raposa: I think so example one thing that comes to mind is Edx platform is in a particular state of evolution, it is where It is not. architecturally perfect in terms of where we wish to go and so we've had a long history of probably airing in certain places of going it's not architecturally there and we need to make something happen. So let's just figure out how to make that happen and try to evolve the architecture in the future. There's the other extreme which is I think extreme that

Robert Raposa: We know what we want and that's the only thing that we're going to allow from this point forward. So if it's not architecturally set up to have plug ability in particular ways that is Then that's just required work before anything can land right and then there's a whole Spectrum in between and…

Feanil Patel: yeah.

Robert Raposa: I'm not saying you're only there but I'm saying you're starting there which makes sense. And how do we figure out if that's the stance? Is their work that you are all going to do to preemively allow for more ability in different ways and to set that up so that when people get to that point, they're not blocked and if not, how do we work together to make it so that we're both investing in that area and allowing things to move forward and …

Feanil Patel: right

Robert Raposa: Maybe Were in fewer problems that we have today, and with the hooks framework and stuff like that. And so I'm not really sure if there are major issues, but there are still issues of …

00:15:00

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I mean you've got the second point on here,…

Robert Raposa: if you

Feanil Patel: which it's gonna require Nuance right like the data dog in server side templates is going to require new ones.

Robert Raposa: right right yeah, right and it's a question because it's also going Stuff that we know We all want to get rid of and replace with Ms. Anyway and whatever.

Feanil Patel: Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: I'm gonna take as a first attempt at this answer, which is that the better way to describe it, I think Kyle and my perspective and Kyle tell me if I'm misrepresenting this is that our desire to reach that point at which plug ability and the good architecture exists that drive is higher but are willingness to negotiate is not necessarily zero, right? we're definitely somewhere in between those two things. It's just that We want to invest in those things sooner rather than later. if we run into a problem where we don't have the right entry points. I think they're like we can either invest immediately in that and figure that out or we can have a pathway forward where we agree on. Both what we're doing in the short term and also agree on what we're going to do in the long term, right one of the hardest parts about adding.

Feanil Patel: pieces that are hyperspecific to edx platform is not having a plan to remove those pieces edx. Enterprise is a really good example of this where we added a thing that we said was going to be removable and it is complex. And I know we're currently in the process of starting that but it was so big that it was never sort of the viable option for such a long time. So I think having those conversations up front is a thing that we're definitely gonna hold ourselves and others accountable for but I think that we're not in flexible.

Kyle McCormick: Yeah, I'd agree I'd say. By default we want to do the right thing. Even if that means blocking. but not against exceptions, but I think the exceptions would be the exception not the norm if that makes sense.

Robert Raposa: right and I think we're on the same page that's the desire. I think it's a question of if

Robert Raposa: this is just a Fear thought if all the decision making is on you too. It's very easy to Simply say To this is just the way it's going to be and the impact because it doesn't actually impact you All. Right. it just impacts, someone else who's coming from the historical impact of what's going on there. and I'm not saying that you will do that or have done that right? it's and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: IPA totally unfounded fear, but it's like when to you

Robert Raposa: Was part of the owner of it. here's not that we're going to make that decision. That is the opposite of you but it feels like a little bit more of here's the committee that needs to actually figure out what's going to happen versus …

Kyle McCormick: I mean our incentive is that you're a huge partner to the open edx project and…

Robert Raposa: because there's sort of in some respects very little incentive for you to Not just hold to drink

Kyle McCormick: we want you guys to be successful.

Feanil Patel: right our whole job is making the projects successful and If two you had to fully walk away from it, it would be harder to achieve that goal.

Robert Raposa: what would be architecturally best.

Feanil Patel: Right, I think you're certainly right like there.

Robert Raposa: right and…

Feanil Patel: There's a way in…

Robert Raposa: which

Feanil Patel: which I can be like, I'm in charge now and you can't do anything that I don't want you to do and my hope is that I built up enough trust that you'll believe me when I say that that won't happen and also definitely some of that will happen because that I have certain desires about how to move this platform that I want to move forward on and I'm happy to discuss what those are and tell you exactly what my plans are up front. None of them are.

Feanil Patel: None of them are inflexible. But I think not unreasonable I want to make sure that I'm really simple and we currently install seven or eight. Packages in our python dependencies that are coming from the edx org, we need to figure out what the plan is that involves figuring out is should this move to the open edxort can this be an optional dependency? What is preventing those things and like that stuff that I want to prioritize and…

00:20:00

Robert Raposa: Yep.

Feanil Patel: have those conversations and that research but it doesn't mean I'm gonna Just delete it out of the platform without talking to you guys first.

Robert Raposa: No, no. And yeah, I mean but I

Robert Raposa: When I said I think the only things that have come up recently for me around some of the data dog work is trying to figure out too and where? It makes sense to have an option where here's a project and we might be iterating towards what we want to get to and we have some agreement that we're not actually going to leave that project until we get to the thing that we agree.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: We want to get to but that timeline-wise that we're not necessarily blocked on it given that There are certain things that need to happen and the platform just isn't ready.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: It's not like it's something wrong whatever and Is that an available process if it's not like we're gonna do this and then we're gonna move on to some other project. It's like all of a single project.

Feanil Patel: I mean I honestly believe that this doesn't change anything for the discussions around data dog or other projects not as platform because even if Kyle, my names hadn't been in that catalog info file. I think you would have been getting the same arguments from us, but it sounds like maybe there's a concern that the arguments hold more power now, which I don't think is true because I think they held a lot of power before.

Feanil Patel: So I don't think we're gaining sort of new traction than we already had. But I do think that we care a lot about that that architectural bit and I think let's take the data dog project as a good example, right I fully aware that this is a tight timeline for you guys. And at the same time, I'm fully aware of how an organizations priorities can shift such that work doesn't get completed to the final Vision that everybody has at the beginning and so From my perspective when we work with this sort of problem.

Feanil Patel: We have to do a little bit of the work up front more than it's gonna be uncomfortable on both sides is probably the best way to describe it where it's like you guys we're probably gonna ask you to do slightly more work up front than you're willing to and we're gonna have to give slightly more leeway than we want to in terms of architectural cleanliness and if we're both a little bit unhappy, it's probably the right decision.

Robert Raposa: And there are options of saying Hey, we're going to make an agreement that this is the point that we all agree. We're going to get to and if priorities change and we don't get there. We're agreeing that we're going to just yank the code that we didn't want. we could make an agreements that are like no that's part of the end of this project like you can't you and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: and I'm just saying that from the standpoint of I get the priorities change, but I also get that there are some timelines that are just very useful that make progress in a particular way and…

Feanil Patel: That's right.

Robert Raposa: and to be able to have that option when it's necessary I'm with you we want that to be an extreme exception,…

Feanil Patel: Yep.

Robert Raposa: rather than the and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: again All of what I'm saying now. I agree this PR is just provoking the conversation, but it's not about this PR change.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, that's totally fine. and this is the meta version of the negotiation that I want us to be doing which is the negotiation about here's the velocity. We need to hear the promises. We want to make and here is how we're gonna hold them accountable that conversation happening before everything lands. He's exactly the thing that I think we should strive for because I think that that's the conversations that weren't happening and aren't happening is right now in a bunch of other aspects of the system and…

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: we want to move more towards those conversations happening up front like all of this.

00:25:00

Feanil Patel: AI translations stuff that has been like getting into a bunch of repos that the product working group was not aware of and…

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: that we didn't know what the architectural plan was behind …

Robert Raposa: That sounds good.

Feanil Patel: it's another situation where I think these kinds of conversations up front about hey,…

Robert Raposa: I'm done talking to Jeremy. I imagine you saw that that Is related to this…

Feanil Patel: here's the experiment here the things that might touch here's by when we will pull them out into plugins and…

Robert Raposa: which is it's very and…

Jeremy Ristau: Yeah, yeah, sorry.

Feanil Patel: here's by when we will remove them.

Robert Raposa: and just has me thinking about things not.

Feanil Patel: Even if we don't pull them out into plugins like that upfront conversation should have happened.

Robert Raposa: but since you're also like

Feanil Patel: We just don't have the framework in place yet for that to successfully happen. And this is kind of a step towards that framework.

Robert Raposa: The manager your fine I imagine with this proceeding net or if you're not you should speak or add comments to the yeah.

Robert Raposa: Okay.

Feanil Patel: I'm not a Russian emergent. but

Feanil Patel: yeah the thing so, I think we're on the same page.

Feanil Patel: Okay, welcome everybody.

Feanil Patel: Excuse me. and fighting a cold the last couple of days the cut Redwood. I'm just falling asleep immediately afterwards.

Feanil Patel: Let me share nice help take notes suggest topics review things that I was supposed to do previously but haven't done yet.

Feanil Patel: if people a minute or two to arrive It's feel free to add yourself here.

Feanil Patel: Kyle you already did that the first thing good job. Yeah. yeah,…

Kyle McCormick: done

Feanil Patel: let's start going through these and then as people catch up we'll sort of move into the rest of the discussion and I checked in about

Feanil Patel: release tagging process stuff where I think we punted on a bunch of that till after the Redwood cut because it was getting close to that and we both had a lot of other work to do. There are some 110 updates that sarina's gonna make

Sarina Canelake: Why is that one on there twice? There's a bunch of them chronically.

Feanil Patel: it's probably I think somebody must have copied something from one page to another. And so we've had some repeats. Yeah, because this is a summary of all of the pages in this space so somebody copied a page. It would show up twice.

Sarina Canelake: Was terrified with the number as I have.

Kyle McCormick: yeah, that was me if you refresh now, it might be

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: Because you copied this page from my previous meeting notes page Kyle. Yeah, that would.

Sarina Canelake: He's scaring me Kyle giving me twice the number to do items. Yeah, of 10 update we talked about that last time. I think it'd be good to update before we cut sumac but I'm gonna probably wait…

Feanil Patel: said

Sarina Canelake: until after the conference frankly to even make that update so it's on my list.

Feanil Patel: sounds good. is it helpful to have on this list as well, or do you want it as a ticket somewhere that you're gonna not lose and it's okay to remove from this list, or do you want us to check it with you? What would be helpful?

Sarina Canelake: it's up to you. I have not put it on my physical list, but I can do that right now and then you can remove it.

Feanil Patel: Okay, put it on your physical list and then I'll remove it.

Sarina Canelake: Okay.

Kyle McCormick: What's up?

Robert Raposa: actually one is that the one we had discussed?

Feanil Patel: the releases so this is

00:30:00

Feanil Patel: about dependencies and releases. It looks like It's about the release process. So.

Sarina Canelake: all It's on my list. You can remove it.

Feanil Patel: And it's weird that that's of 10 Yeah,…

Kyle McCormick: That looks like it's about 45.

Feanil Patel: I think it should be a 45.

Sarina Canelake: And sounds perfect. I love it.

Robert Raposa: Right either the description or the ideas.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, yeah.

Robert Raposa: I'm not sure which we wanted to talk about and if it is the 45 discussion that we had in the past. I'm also wondering if update updates of oops have typically been pretty minor things and this one if it's A real difference. Maybe it should be at a whole new that's going to replace. That are and that would make it like the platform.

Kyle McCormick: AG

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: Okay.

Kyle McCormick: I think we don't even have consensus on what the replacement decision is. So maybe revoke. the right step

Feanil Patel: yeah, we're looking 45 might be the right way to go or I forget what the stage actually is called, but

Sarina Canelake: Yeah, I mean, I think my plan was to use one of my weekly one-on-ones with Kyle to just have a conversation about this to start and then maybe come back to you guys with some of our thoughts around the way to move forward. So I think that is a decent route to consider.

Feanil Patel: cool Yeah, that sounds good.

Feanil Patel: And then yeah you and I spoke about this yesterday. We're gonna catch up more later around the release tagging stuff. I think that's probably why it's so at 10 up there is because this conversation is about release tagging in the previous ones about configuration.

Sarina Canelake: gosh

Feanil Patel: And then Kyle already reduced the number of tests in the next platform, which has been super helpful.

Feanil Patel: Note upgrade retro. I've not scheduled but I will be scheduling for next week.

Feanil Patel: I need to coordinate with. Brian Smith on that. Is there anybody Robert to you side that you want me to include for sure on the node.js? upgrade stuff

Robert Raposa: I mean I imagine Diana and then maybe just reaching out to Diana to find out who else and if anyone else.

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Robert Raposa: I mean and I'd be happy to be I only added to it, so depending on timing. I'd love to be there but I'm not sure if I'm going to be there and I don't want

Sarina Canelake: Yeah, I'd also like to be optionally added to that and…

Feanil Patel: That's good.

Sarina Canelake: I'll try to make it if I can.

Robert Raposa: and I don't know Jeremy if there's anyone from Arby bomb that you want to

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I would love R Bieber presentation. I'm happy to hold it at an early time to make it easier for them.

Robert Raposa: yeah, so then let's figure that out.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, I'll reach out to today and figure out if there's an RV bone personal also.

Robert Raposa: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: Okay, that's good though. Excuse me. I think this conversation about extra requires happened in the maintenance slide channels or Fallout that needs to happen for this.

Robert Raposa: And I know him did things. I don't know exactly what I did and if he did all the things that you wanted him to do or not.

Kyle McCormick: I gave him suggestions and he said he'd look into them and that's where we left off. So I think I'm not concerned if he wants.

Robert Raposa: You got it. I can check in to see if that's like

Feanil Patel: If that Loop is closed.

Robert Raposa: Yeah, or if it's ticketed or what it is.

Feanil Patel: That sounds good. And then

Feanil Patel: dependency removal and that it's platform we chatted about that. We wanted to chat about this last time a little bit. I forget if we've talked a little bit about this already, this is related to the customization conversation that we've had Robert about To you sort of managing their own settings file to be able to do things. Mostly because of the shortcomings of the yaml config file this feels like it's related to the oep45 rejection and change conversations. So maybe I'm going to close

00:35:00

Feanil Patel: Yeah, and somebody can help me take notes would be awesome. Maybe I'm going to close this one. Good.

Robert Raposa: I mean it is this. Definitely to you only issue or does it make sense as sort of like an edx platform issue that we can just collect your thoughts on and have a place to document?

Feanil Patel: Yeah. Yeah, I'm almost wondering if it makes sense to deprecate the yaml config. altogether

Feanil Patel: So for those who weren't here for the earlier conversation a little recap right and that the Django settings are loaded using a settings file called production up. I will production up high is

Feanil Patel: It loads a bunch of configuration from a yaml file and then it overrides that with a bunch of python settings afterwards tutor I think has a setting style that pulls from production but then adds more things and as a python script this combination of yaml and python together leads to a lot of confusion about we're settings what the setting is supposed to be what thing which override is actually taking the most precedence also prevents you from doing things like having a value of setting be an object which is important a lot of the times when we want to have a list of X blocks that are enabled or disabled or a list of other objects that meet certain criteria. caching related things. So this is fixed by having class path to objects in perspection happen,…

Robert Raposa: The two just high level question or…

Feanil Patel: but discussion that we were having

Robert Raposa: one high level question.

Feanil Patel: A little while ago that there were a couple of settings…

Robert Raposa: Is this an edx platform thing or is this a all services thing

Feanil Patel: where in order to add objects. there had to be code changes in edx platform that were specific to you and a certain and some I think mixins that they wanted to have on Xbox. And so the question arose about should there be this double override thing or…

Robert Raposa: Okay, and so it's the biggest pain point but it's pattern that's used everywhere.

Feanil Patel: should we just assume that all operators are going to be running their own? Settings file and all we would just have a common which had defaults and then every operator would override it with all of their config and they would just manage their own Pi file. And so that's a question. That's kind of open right now if people have thoughts on it we can discuss further.

Robert Raposa: Yeah, so I'm wondering the other notes just gonna make is it I wonder if that 45 replacement, even if it doesn't get all the way to proposal just have a PR to document all the things that you just said in your thoughts and…

Feanil Patel: I think the source is edx platform because it's the most confusing. I think the decision would be for all services.

Robert Raposa: where discussion can happen. Maybe that's Of the collect that and then it sounds like there's two things. there's that…

Feanil Patel: Yeah, yeah. It's this thing variations on that pattern currently exist.

Robert Raposa: which may not land in any particular point in time and then there's A possible to you ever that you're brought up that we could do to sort of.

Feanil Patel: And that pattern is overridden in tutor. So there's this multi-level confusion, and I'm wondering…

Robert Raposa: mitigate the reality of the situation that we're in right now…

Feanil Patel: if we just want to settle on this is not a discussion about Can we settle on something new that's less painful?

Robert Raposa: where we haven't yet landed where we want to go, but we Have something in particular and this would allow us to have more flexibility on both that. and then we can talk about how to land that

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

00:40:00

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: Right, right.

Feanil Patel: Okay.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, since this is wrapped up 45 stuff. Maybe I'll wait till that is a little bit more cooked and we can talk about it Kyle you want to go and have your address?

Feanil Patel: Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, if you want to leave that conversation, that would be perfect.

Michelle Philbrick: Yeah, so a little bit of context just…

Feanil Patel: continue moving forward Mongo upgrade that's done.

Michelle Philbrick: because we have a good chunk of repos that we're still looking for. maintenance on And sorry,…

Feanil Patel: If you need to check that off this documentation. I'm going to start writing up before the 312 upgrades.

Michelle Philbrick: I'm also getting over a cold.

Feanil Patel: So that's soon. And then same with this doc about maintenance models for the platform.

Michelle Philbrick: And so some of them aren't currently maintained and…

Feanil Patel: And I know Jeremy still got a couple of repos that need to be updated for ownership to you.

Michelle Philbrick: maybe they used to be maintained. So they've got reviewers listed or maybe someone reviewed six months ago and…

Michelle Philbrick: I'm not able to remove them and I don't know if that's Something that can be updated.

Feanil Patel: But hopefully now that the Redwood cut is around the corner.

Feanil Patel: I'll have more time to spend on that and…

Michelle Philbrick: The point is when I try and…

Feanil Patel: finding more maintenance for things before we start doing more maintenance.

Michelle Philbrick: compile a list for cc's of

Feanil Patel: With that Michelle you want to talk about new labels for lsprs needing reviewers?

Michelle Philbrick: Osprs that need review it's not always accurate and things don't always show up because if I'm filtering by needs reviewer or something like that ones that actually don't show up in the same goes for edx platform that view that was created by meeting, needs review not all of them are showing up because things that have been stalled that already have people assigned or something aren't it's just not showing up. So I didn't know if maybe it would be easier to

Michelle Philbrick: Have a label where I could just filter by that and then CC's would know which things are stalled or need review. Hopefully It makes sense to me because I'm in it, but if I'm not being clear, just let me know.

Michelle Philbrick: Yep.

Michelle Philbrick: Yeah.

Michelle Philbrick: Yeah, so for instance, let's say there was a group of signed to review it. That's no longer looking at that particular repo or something. I'm not able to remove them as a reviewer. So it's not going to show up on a filter for the CC's or…

Feanil Patel: Yeah. Yeah, I'll ask a couple questions for clarification for me at least and…

Michelle Philbrick: for anyone that could potentially review it. So that's…

Feanil Patel: then if others have questions feel free to jump in so you're saying hey…

Michelle Philbrick: why I was thinking for situations like that or just in general for edx platform and…

Feanil Patel: the needs Reviewer is if a person has a reviewer assigned at the pull request as a reviewer assigned.

Michelle Philbrick: for any pull requests that are either stalled or need review from some repo.

Feanil Patel: Then it doesn't show up in that filter,…

Michelle Philbrick: That's not currently maintained…

Feanil Patel: but that auto assigning a reviewer might be out of date.

Michelle Philbrick: if we could have a label wording to be determined that

Feanil Patel: And so you don't know that PR actually needs a real review and…

Michelle Philbrick: That was it explicitly like hey,…

Feanil Patel: is not getting tracked properly

Michelle Philbrick: this needs somebody assigned to it and it would Trump everything else since so if there was a group previously assigned it's like if that label is on there.

Feanil Patel: right

Michelle Philbrick: It means it's stalled and need somebody else's attention.

Robert Raposa: Yeah, I was just curious Why we can't remove a reviewer, especially if they are confusingly not actually a reviewer anymore.

00:45:00

Sarina Canelake: You need write access on the repo to remove reviewer and Michelle has triage access. Yeah, there's just assigning reviewers is weirdly a permission reserved for those with right access.

Robert Raposa: Got it.

Sarina Canelake: I mean it kind of makes sense for a lot of other projects. So

Michelle Philbrick: which is fine, so it's just a suggestion for Tim and I to be able to Be able to filter by one common thing that will show people things that need attention that don't have someone assigned to them that have been solved. so yeah, that was just my suggestion because I realized that a lot of the things that need attention There's just some nuances to it. So they're not all getting Bunch together and…

Sarina Canelake: Yeah.

Michelle Philbrick: instead of pinging maintainers with one-offs or

Sarina Canelake: Yeah, Michelle. I feel like you're talking in circles just a little bit and I kind of want to get to the root of the problem is.

Michelle Philbrick: Yeah, no problem.

Sarina Canelake: When people are assigned to a pull request as a reviewers, you're assuming they're going to review them. However they don't always review them and you need a way to distinguish a pull request as an assigned reviewer, but Is not actually being reviewed by that reviewer. That's the problem. I mean that I just want to separate the problem from your proposed solution so that we're all on the same page.

Michelle Philbrick: Yes, the problem is that.

Sarina Canelake: I mean was my statement corrector was it incorrect?

Michelle Philbrick: it's not always necessarily that the assigned reviewers aren't reviewing. it's more of like I mean yes, and no. it's just like there's so many little situations that Come up, but essentially yes for whatever reason the assigned Reviewer is no longer reviewing is not able to review whatever. It needs somebody else to take a look at it because it's been stalled or it doesn't have an owner.

Sarina Canelake: and the only way for someone who could review that pull requests would be to look at the board that you have. And so what you're looking to do ultimately is resurface those pull requests on a specific board.

Michelle Philbrick: Correct, or at least just have them be able to quickly look at what is available? for review what needs review because the other options are Tim and I just put these in slack and have to keep going back and saying This still needs review. Whereas if we're able to create one cohesive view of these outstanding things. I think it would be easier for everyone to just be able to look and see at what needs to be reviewed and closed or emerged or whatever.

Sarina Canelake: Yeah, I mean honestly Michelle this feels like something that you guys should just solve and then tell us what the new process is this I mean, right you're really in the process and if a label makes sense to you, then you should add the label. I mean that's kind of personally.

Michelle Philbrick: Yeah, I just didn't know if any cc is here or anyone that, actively looks for things to review if that would make sense or whatever. So before right, we did anything. I just wanted to make sure there was no. Blocking feedback or anyone that had any issues with that?

Adolfo Brandes: As a common assignee or…

Feanil Patel: and again

Adolfo Brandes: reviewer that sometimes doesn't have time to get to them. I just like an anecdotal thing pinging me on slack will help. But otherwise, I probably won't be looking at anything else. like boards and…

Michelle Philbrick: yeah, and

Adolfo Brandes: stuff like I'm not saying just a report on somebody that's on the other side, right?

Michelle Philbrick: Yeah, and this is to help solve for that. So instead of saying here's a list of all the things I need you to do. just Tim and I can just go into the maintenance Channel or into the CC Channel. With a link to a view that shows everything that's stalled and one's just assigned. To you Adolfo. This is things that have been dropped by. people or yeah

Adolfo Brandes: No I didn't mean to save mine was the only case it's just giving one type of

Feanil Patel: Yes. Yeah.

Michelle Philbrick: No, yeah. Yeah, so instead of having to Ping everyone with all these individual.

00:50:00

Michelle Philbrick: PRS, it would just be one link to a view of This is what we need.

Feanil Patel: Michelle, I'm totally fine with the label if that is the useful I'm curious about why it wouldn't be a column on your board is that just like that gets too unwieldy it feels like it's a state of a open source contribution that needs review is that it is stalled.

Michelle Philbrick: Yeah, so right now we have ready for review and then in engineering review and we did have needs reviewer. But again that gets a little tricky because some of them already have reviewers assigned. So if we're trying to find ones that need a reviewer that already have an old reviewer assigned.

Feanil Patel: red

Feanil Patel: got it.

Michelle Philbrick: I don't think it's going to be clear. so that's

Feanil Patel: got you, because there's showing up here in the Actual ticket and so you're like, has reviewers. Can I move this? no. It's a stalled reviewer review or…

Michelle Philbrick: right right

Feanil Patel: this is a new reviewer. Whereas if you have a label you guys can sort of remove that label when you believe you can ask the person who's looking at it to remove the label.

Michelle Philbrick: yes, yeah, or Yeah, and maybe using the assignee field to take it and say

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Michelle Philbrick: I'm going to take this over, whatever but it's just so people know that hey, even though this says there's reviewers like this is stalled or this needs help. somebody needs to take a look at this. It's been dropped.

Feanil Patel: but

Feanil Patel: yeah, if there's a lit but

Robert Raposa: as she's gonna say net Ned shared some code that he had written before he left to give just Doing against GitHub and output some reporting of literally just PR's owned by different people that haven't landed in 60 days or 90 days or whatever it is that you couldn't and if real problem is just So much time has gone by and it could be for any reason and these things just haven't need to get cleaned up. That's another. possible helpful tool so that you don't even have to Do all of that work, but there's a simple report. this Might be an addition to a label.

Michelle Philbrick: we have

Robert Raposa: I'm not taking away anything that was just added. This is just

Feanil Patel: life, so

Michelle Philbrick: That's great. My only comment on that would be we currently use Tim and I put information in fields in the osprs that were able to do that by if something's been sitting for a couple weeks. or more or whatever we're able to pretty much see that but it's more of like when we're following up with people on things that need to be Reviewed or if a cc is looking for things that are available and it's not completely clear if something is this would just help make it clear for everybody.

Feanil Patel: that

Robert Raposa: Sounds good.

Feanil Patel: 

Feanil Patel: Michelle add an action item for you. I think you can just put in an accent request to add a new label with whatever value you think is the right value. And we can just add it to all the repos and…

Michelle Philbrick: Okay.

Feanil Patel: then you guys can start using it if it doesn't work. We'll remove it. It's fine.

Michelle Philbrick: Thank you so much.

Feanil Patel: That cool only a couple minutes left not a lot going on at the moment other than the Redwood release which will happen in a couple of hours. There's a product roadmap meeting before that to check in edx platform is running 311 on Master right now. I think once the release is cut we will remove the three eight and four four testing. I'm pretty immediately after that. Just so we can have faster testing times. On a nice platform for the other services, I believe credentials was close in many to check in on and of course Discovery was also close but I don't know what the final update is on either of those.

Feanil Patel: but notes and execute and I believe commerce worker and discover. You're all pretty close to being done but might not have made it in time for this cut. Which is unfortunate, but the current state of reality.

Feanil Patel: So moving forward. These are things I think that we may want to consider. Hopefully we'll have more time and better prayer preparation for the next one so that we can get to 312 much earlier. I want to be able to identify. Owners and set deadlines a little bit sooner than

00:55:00

Sarina Canelake: Okay.

Feanil Patel: 10 minutes before the release for these things to be out the door so that those are the thoughts. I'm having for the 312 stuff and sumac I'd love to hear other people's thoughts about how things went.

Adolfo Brandes: this I just want to say sort of a general thought is that the cutoff from Masters today, but that doesn't mean We can't change Redwood dotmaster right?

Feanil Patel: big

Adolfo Brandes: So anything comes up like they're gonna be bugs that we're gonna find…

Feanil Patel: Yeah.

Adolfo Brandes: because of testing and they're gonna fix things. It's just that the process a little more involved. It's been a master and…

Feanil Patel: Yeah, lots of make them back for you.

Adolfo Brandes: then you open it back. Yeah.

Feanil Patel: No, and we almost certainly will for the 311 stuff because I think both credentials and Discovery are pretty close. So if I can't get to them in the next hour or two, then we'll open a back port for them.

Adolfo Brandes: Yeah, and then I don't know what the proper procedure To make sure that when you do that the stuff that it affects gets retested, think. I'm not sure there is a process for this but we should be aware that.

Feanil Patel: Yeah, we should be aware. Yeah, and tutor will have to update the plugin Run on the new version.

Adolfo Brandes: Yeah, exactly.

Feanil Patel: So it'll be a little complicated if that's why I wanted to land these first because the tutor updates might not have been made yet. So

Adolfo Brandes: Yeah, Yeah, the first week after the cutoff's gonna be a bit very fuzzy.

Feanil Patel: A bit messy. Yeah, okay. We'll do what we can thanks.

Adolfo Brandes: Yeah.

Feanil Patel: Everybody. See you in the next time.

Meeting ended after 00:59:28 👋